More on the anon meme

[tarigwaemir]

Stanley Hall on the Feast of St. Bruno

Perhaps it's better for me to keep my mouth shut, but I've been thinking about the anon meme, especially after discussing it with worldserpent in her journal, and I wanted to write a post about it to sort my thoughts out.

What's clear from the meme is that certain fandom trends, especially the tendency to praise itself (for "lack of wank", "niceness/maturity", "high fic quality", etc.), has caused resentment and dissatisfaction because, well, these generalizations only have a relative value of truth and sometimes are not true at all. I know that I've certainly contributed to these trends, whether it be in my own journal or other people's comment threads, and if anything I've said or done has soured your fandom experience or hurt your feelings, I'd like to say sorry. (I've already made my apologies to Aja, but she's not the only one who's dissatisfied judging by the anon comments in the meme.) I don't flatter myself to think that my one apology necessarily makes anything better, but since I feel that I've been a part of the problem, so to speak, I thought I should do my part in trying to improve the situation.

Fundamentally, I slip into this "self-congratulatory" tone when talking about the fandom because I'm happy with the fandom status quo. I think because I'm satisfied, I forget that other people may not be, for perfectly legitimate reasons. E.g. I was discussing with bookshop about the relative mean fic quality in anime versus Western fandoms in the anon meme, and all our arguments aside, the real difference in our positions boils down to that I'm happy with the quality of the fics I see in fandom, while she thinks that they can be even better. In that respect, well, yes, I do have lower standards, and meta discussion aside, I don't think she's wrong for setting higher ones. Also, I can see that my complacent attitude can be really frustrating to those who don't share it (not just with regard to this issue, but thornier issues as well, such as fandom inclusiveness). It's hard for me to be shaken out of my complacence because I really do believe that Hikago fandom is a wonderful place--it's certainly not the best fandom it could be and I know that it has problems, but overall, it's brought me a lot of happiness. (I think that even people who think that the fandom could improve are still equally in love with the fandom itself, not to mention its canon material. But we do end up talking about the fandom from very different perspectives.)

What I can say is, just because I'm satisfied with the way things are does not mean that I'm unwilling for things to change. I think we can always find common motivation. E.g. regarding the question of fanfic quality, well, some people want better fanfic, and I just want more fanfic. These two aims are not mutually exclusive. I might never quite be persuaded into actually wanting better fanfic (as opposed to just more fanfic), but I can definitely get on board with whatever proposal you have for generating it, whether it be concrit initiatives or more fandom meta or new fic challenges or what-have-you.

On a slightly different note, what also stood out to me after my conversation with harumi is that because of the size of Hikago fandom, there's this tendency for a group consensus to develop on which fics deserve especial praise, which often makes it intimidating for someone who disagrees to express their real opinions about the fics. To be honest, I think this problem will never really go away, since all fandoms face it to one degree or another. Maybe the anon meme was useful in providing a space for people to vent; maybe it didn't provide enough catharsis. But I did want to say that you're always welcome to give me negative feedback. I actually have no problem with people telling me they didn't like my fic or found it boring. I prefer to solicit constructive criticism--in which you delineate specific suggestions for improving my writing--on my own terms, but you don't need to worry about offending my feelings by simply telling me your negative or indifferent reaction to what I wrote. I guess my stating that isn't necessarily going to change things, but I thought I'd at least make my position clear since I don't think I've really done so before.

Similarly, if you ever feel offended by something I say regardless of whether I intended to be offensive or not, don't hesitate to call me out on it. Hurt feelings are still hurt feelings, and even if I had good intentions, if I offend someone, clearly I've failed to communicate them, and that failure is something that I need to address. I admit that I usually avoid open confrontation, but if I'm behaving badly in your eyes, I would like to know. If you talk to me, I promise I'll listen and try to clear up any misunderstandings or fix my language.

Okay, possibly a little too much navel-gazing there, but I think I needed to write that all out for myself at the very least.

Yours &c.

Comments

[unrequitedangst.livejournal.com]

I was going to write a long comment/LJ post about the whole wank, but then I realized that might not be well-advised considering that I don't actually write or participate in HnG fandom outside of lurking and, errrrrrr, I do find the fandom itself offputting. (I know, I know. This is hilarious coming from me, considering that my primary fandom is Japanese boybands. *g*)

For what it's worth, though, I don't think you have anything to apologize for, either now or in the past? I'll be the first to admit I find many HnG fans irritating and completely hypocritical, but I think you've acted with remarkable grace & class throughout this entire thing.

[troisroyaumes]

Heh, thanks for the reassurance. Mostly, reading the meme made me feel a little guilty because I'd think, "Oops, well, I've said that a lot, haven't I?" and it hadn't occurred to me before that it could be offensive, particularly in a whole thread of other comments chiming in the same chorus, so to speak.

(By the way, long time no speak! How have you been? XD)

[unrequitedangst.livejournal.com]

(Upon rereading, my first comment sounds embarrassingly virulent, so I should clarify that I do not actually regard HnG fandom with fear and loathing *g*. I just find its social dynamic rather Q_Q.)

And I have been good! I keep meaning to update LJ, but you know how it goes. Senior year is insane, etc, etc, and my project keeps changing its goals, but we've finally gotten to the point where I think I know what I am doing in the lab. Most of the time, anyway. *g*

[troisroyaumes]

Glad to hear you're still holding on! Good luck with research! Ugh, I know what you mean about changing goals; have been going through the same problem myself. ;_; Also, I have newfound sympathy for your exasperation at premeds last semester, now that I'm TA-ing this fall. Hope you get a chance to update sometime; I miss reading your posts. ^_^

not perhaps very helpful, due to being v. partisan and ignorant, comment

[bravecows.livejournal.com]

but still, i am mildly annoyed at hikaru no go fandom for prompting this. i am sure you have never done anything that is not graceful and classy and basically the opposite of offensive!

/partisan ignorance

i do find that anime fandoms tend to have less of the sort of fic i love best, but i think this is a combination of demographics (younger fen, a fannish culture perhaps less focused exclusively on fanfic as opposed to other forms of fannish interaction, more fen whose first language is not english) and the fact that i 'grew up' in what its members call media fandom, so my tastes will have been formed by the sort of thing they churned out rather than by anime fandom. god knows the '90s slash epics i ate up were not notable for their literary quality!

Re: not perhaps very helpful, due to being v. partisan and ignorant, comment

[troisroyaumes]

Oh, no one accused me of anything on the meme! It's just that people objected to the way that fandom generally perceives itself, and it really just struck home to me that having yet another person (e.g. me) repeating how wank-free/nice the fandom is could contribute to people's dissatisfaction. >_>;;

Yes, I think my fanfic expectations are different from people who enter through Western media fandoms because I entered through anime fandoms, and I suspect that does contribute to the difference. What those expectations are, I can't quite pin down, though that would make a great meta topic. ^_^

[petronia.livejournal.com]

On the point of fandom "group consensus" - koganbot from my flist linked to an article (http://www.lasvegasweekly.com/news/archive/2007/oct/04/the-rules-of-the-game-no-18-the-social-butterfly-e/) he wrote some time ago that has a lot of application here (even though said article wasn't about fandom at all *g*).

[troisroyaumes]

Thanks for the link! I think that definitely applies to what goes on in fandom, and it would make sense that it appears more strongly in fandoms that are more highly clustered. (Haha, I'm using terms from my network theory course--in accordance with this model then, the best way to write a popular fic is to write one that appeals to the tastes of the largest fandom hubs. Okay, a truism to be sure, but it's nice to make the connection to epidemiology.)

[tokyofish.livejournal.com]

I actually don't know what HikaGo fandom is getting so worked up about. (Though, when I actually checked the anon meme, no one really seemed THAT worked up - I mean, there wasn't really that much . . . hate. Just frustration?) I've always been sort of relieved HikaGo fandom is super-uber wanky. But I guess what we're seeing here is a small town mentality where everybody knows everybody else and the atmosphere can get a bit stifling (especially for newcomers) but the majority of residents enjoy the peace and quiet? But unless there's a sudden huge influx of people from the "big cities" to shake things up (which I don't see happening), I don't really think there's much you can do about it?

Completely unrelated: Do you want to get lunch sometime this week? I'm sorry I never actually got back to you with a time the other week. ;__;

[troisroyaumes]

Oh, you're perfectly right, not much hate, just frustration. What prompted this post was the realization that I've probably contributed to the conditions that led to that frustration? (...Ugh, I get more verbose by the day. Sorry, I've been talking in academic-speak for too long.) Anyway, you're very right about the small-town mentality, and while I don't know so much about the huge influx, I think we are growing at a faster rate now than we were previously just after the canon ended.

Yes! I'm free on Thursday. Where do you want to eat? There's a Yali's in Stanley now, did you know?

[tokyofish.livejournal.com]

Haha, re-reading my comment I realize I left out a "not." >__>;;;

It should read: "I've always been sort of relieved HikaGo fandom is not super-uber wanky." >___<

What time would you like to meet up on Thursday? And anywhere's fine with me? And no, I didn't know about Yali's. Haha, I don't know anything about changes to campus. If you want to eat there that's fine too. ^__^

[troisroyaumes]

How about noon at Stanley? The cafe's a convenient place for me to eat for obvious reasons, and the sandwiches are pretty good, I think. ^_^

[tokyofish.livejournal.com]

Okay, sounds good! I'll see you on Thursday, then! ^__^

[issen4.livejournal.com]

Hm, I stopped thinking of the Hikago fandom as all sweetness and light after a bit of flak over (coincidentally) my post on Aja's comment about BG. And after a while you start to think, "So there're different opinions after all (wondered where they've been hiding). Nothing bad about that!"

You're right in that the emphasis on the fandom being a nice and polite place can cause social pressure on those who feel differently. In fact, that was what bothered me when I got into the fandom. (I'd been in the Gundam Wing fandom before--lurked, actually--and it was/is an insane place.) But after a while, I started to accept it and even started to uphold the ideal. I was new, I figured I'd better toe the party line. :p

It's the size of the fandom too, especially if you limit it to fandom on LJ. It's a very small group that participates actively: by posting fics, discussions, create meta, etc. I think that's why we all want to be so polite to one another--it's a matter of survival.

So maybe it's a good thing that we're no longer so worried about the fandom that we feel free to just express what we feel, even if it steps on toes? I'd take that over a dwindling fandom any day.

[troisroyaumes]

It's not so much that I didn't know there were dissenting opinions or that I thought of Hikago fandom as being "sweetness and light" but I guess I didn't realize before that what I was saying was actually contributing to the social pressure. I mean, I toed the party line, just like you, and it didn't particularly bother me to do so because I don't think anyone can deny that Hikago really is pretty tame compared to Gundam Wing (also my previous lurking fandom!). ^_^

So maybe it's a good thing that we're no longer so worried about the fandom that we feel free to just express what we feel, even if it steps on toes?

Hm, that being said, I'm not sure if everyone feels free to do so...maybe I'm just taking the anon comments too much to heart, but it really does seem as if people still feel pretty stifled. Perhaps we're just going through growing pains? But anyway, I thought having realized that I'm part of the problem, I should make some sort of acknowledgment/amends.

[issen4.livejournal.com]

I don't doubt they still do. Not everyone finds it easy to go against expectations. But it probably just takes time.

[love_archived]

Tari, of all the people on my list, you would be the first name I thought of when asked to name a diplomat, and I actually have an ex-diplomat's daughter on my f-list. (She would be number 2.) I have never seen you act anyway less than gracious, ever.

[troisroyaumes]

Hah, those high school years spent doing model UN paid off! (Ignore my flippancy. XD)